If Dana hadn’t just had a baby (it’s okay link in and congratulate her), she would have already linked to this post at End Hereditary Religion. Where you can read this about HSLDA and Parentsrights.org:
They are all part of a scheme to make it possible for Christian fascists to keep their children out of the public schools and brainwash them at home 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Children trapped in their miserable parents clutches are not allowed any freedom to investigate the world. No video, no movies, no music, books or magazines are given to them except the ones approved by parents. They are unable to make friends with any other children except from families like theirs. It is cruel and a horrible crime against these children. As many as 1.5 million may be trapped by their despicable parents. ~ Christian fascists oppose Ogden Nomination
I am not a member of HSLDA. I don’t agree with many of the positions that they have taken recently including their stand on the Parental Rights Amendment. Why would I want the federal government to have a Constitutionally recognized role in defining the rights of parents? I really shouldn’t need it to protect my right to home educate my children. That same Constitution, the one which defines the limits of the government’s power, doesn’t give the Federal government any role in defining our children’s education.
I remain happy to oppose the appointment of any federal judges who would use international law as a basis to decide a court cases. Using foreign laws to interpret the US Constitution threatens US sovereignty.
To the author of the above comment:
- You seem to have confused fascism with theocracy. Fascism has always been tied to a culture of social Darwinism. I don’t know any fundamental Christian group that supports Darwinian evolution as a way of improving a nation or a race. A theocracy is a government in which God is recognized as the supreme leader of a nation. Now, I will admit that there are some Christian extremists who would create a theocracy if they could. But, alas this would require a massive re-writing of the US Constitution. The Constitution of the US asserts that the people are the supreme leaders of the US.
- I will not speak for all home schoolers. But, I didn’t begin my journey in order to brainwash my children. My oldest daughter was in school from kindergarten through 7th grade. She came home because the school no longer wished to educate her. They wanted to label her as incorrigible, lock her in a classroom for children with severe behavior problems, teach her non-verbal communication and train her to be a school janitor.
- I do not have nearly the influence over my children as you assume. My children are in their room a minimum of 10 hours a day/7 days a week. During the daylight hours they only listen to me about 45% of the time. So, I can really only impact them about 6 hours a day. I have even less influence over my teenager. She works about 3 hours a day and only listens to me about 25% of the time.
- I do select the literature and movies my 3 and 5 year old have access too. But, my older daughter makes her own money and has a library card. She can buy anything she wants. She will be an adult in a year and needs to figure out for herself what her world view is.
- I have lamented before that none of my daughters friends are necessarily the people I would choose for her. I don’t tell her who to be friends with. I do, however, reserve the right to encourage certain friendships while discouraging others. That means that I say no to sleepovers, don’t give rides and don’t invite to my home teens who use drugs, alcohol or my daughter. I am pretty sure parents who choose public or private school do this too.
- You do know that all homeschoolers are not fundamentalist Christians, don’t you?
Related: Deputy Attorney General Nominee David Ogden: Questions on Interpretation of the U.S. Constitution; David Ogden should withdraw nomination
7 responses so far ↓
Karla // 25 February 2009 at 8:25 pm |
Thank you for articulating for me, when I was dumbfounded at Richard’s comments.
Barbara // 25 February 2009 at 8:30 pm |
I am very shocked, too. What a radical approach at purporting the community owns the child vs. the parent.
Mrs. C // 26 February 2009 at 11:02 am |
Wowwwww.
And… so what if you choose your kid’s friends? Fer crying out loud, I don’t care if you want to try to tomato-stake Marissa. She’s YOUR child, and you don’t have to justify your parenting techniques to me or anybody else.
I mean, unless you’re beating her with a bat or something. You knew what I meant.
Wow.
James // 26 February 2009 at 11:22 am |
Thanks for this well articulated post. I do not believe that Richard is targeting with his harsh words here all homeschoolers in the United States but rather those of a Christian fundamentalist persuasion. If you have never seen the documentary Jesus Camp, you should, and then perhaps you would have a better understanding of the real problem here.
My Response:
Richard was targeting his comments at all home schoolers. Statistics from 2004 indicate that there are over 1 million home schoolers in the US. So, his 1.5 million includes all of us. Only about 30% of home schoolers indicate that the most important reason they home educate their children is so that they can provide religious instruction. (Figure 2. Percentage of homeschooled students, ages 5 through 17 with a grade equivalent of kindergarten through 12th grade, whose parents reported various reasons as their most important reason for homeschooling: 2003). Would you restrict the freedom of everyone because a few individuals teach their children a doctrine you don’t approve of?
I have seen only a trailer for ‘Jesus Camp’ and there are not enough hours in my day to watch such garbage. It is enough for me to know that I cannot keep my freedom to educate my child as I see fit and not grant that freedom to others too. Why, Richard can even keep his children at home and teach them to be Christian-hating atheists. We can’t have freedom, unless there’s freedom.
Emma // 26 February 2009 at 7:08 pm |
I think you have made a mistake. I strongly approve HSLDA
please read this
BY HSLDA
This article is about the need to save parental rights. I use the story of the battle to save marriage solely as a cautionary tale. The threats to parental rights are real and growing. And we must face the fact that the right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children is not explicitly written in the text of the Constitution. If we wish to preserve this right, it is my contention that now is the time to put parents’ rights into black and white—that is, to adopt an explicit constitutional amendment
Later in the article they give this reason…
In the most recent parental rights decision by the Supreme Court (Troxel v. Granville), Justice Scalia made it clear that he is a political supporter of the concept of parental rights. He believes that this right is an inalienable human right and was included within the Ninth Amendment’s declaration of reserved rights. However, because parental rights are not explicitly stated in any constitutional language, Scalia voted to deny parental rights the status of an enforceable constitutional right.
I believe you have made a big mistake to say you are against HSLDA. But everyone is entitled to there opinions…. EMMA
by the way you got your links from my site. I’m sorry you used it against HSLDA
My Response:
I understand your concern, I just don’t want this to be something that occurs at a Federal level. I have two congressman (actually I only have one right now I don’t think Minnesota has decided if Coleman or Franken won). They represent over 5 million people. Our voice is distant and, frankly, they represent their party and not the people. Today the Senate Judiciary Committee approved David Ogden’s nomination. This despite getting over 11,000 phone calls, letters, and emails opposing it. (Senate Judiciary Committee Backs Pro-Abortion Obama Justice Pick David Ogden). They voted along party lines. The Democrats supported the nomination, the fiver Republicans opposed it.
“Making the ‘rights of parents’ fundamental rights in the U.S. Constitution raises those rights to the federal level. The federal government then is better able to assume a power to regulate those rights. The Supreme Court already has “interpreted” the right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children as something that can be regulated by government. Up until now, however, the courts have said that it is up to the States to regulate that right. With a constitutional amendment, the road is cleared for the courts to say that the federal government also has the right to regulate.” ~ from NHELD, Bulletin #58 Germany, the UN, and a U.S. Constitutional Amendment
Sombra // 26 February 2009 at 9:26 pm |
See, and this is why I don’t get vocal about politics and pro- or anti – abortion issues etc.. because even if I disagree with another person – I don’t get to choose for them.
We’ll only live in a Godly society – with Judeo-Christian based Morals – IF and only IF – we are all indewlt by the Holy Spirit. And so.. until that day.. we have to live our own lives according to our understanding of Judeo-Christian ideals.. and let others live their lives according to their own ideals. I can’t MAKE a person do as I do.. that’s Idolatry.. Trying to make a person view life through my God fearing eyes.. it won’t work – until THEY have a relationship with God.. and I can’t make that happen for anyone. They have to want it..
I’m Glad Richard has freedom to voice his revulsion against what he thinks is the purpose of homeschooling.. it give me the freedom to vocalize my passion for God. I don’t agree with him.. but I also don’t feel the need to kick his butt and make him change. That’s God’s job.
I don’t have an HSLDA membership either.
Richard Collins // 27 February 2009 at 7:52 am |
You have a totally inaccurate picture of what is transpiring. The Christian fascist movement in the USA has been well documented by respected journalists. Read Chris Hedges book American Fascists.
Christian fascists don’t agree that democratic procedures are the way to make decisions. They get voted down over their constant attempts to introduce creation science and Christianity into the classroom. They got tired of being told no so what did they do? They took control of the Republican party, elected sympathizers and fellow travelers and finally managed to elect their candidate for president, G. W. Bush.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/taking_over.htm
Then they reinvigorated their attempts to destroy the American public school system. Indeed they called for abolishing the Department of Education.
With a massive political effort and a lobbying campaign backed by the president, they created an alternate school system where they would have total control. Voilá, − homeschools. Perfect. No oversight. No one could know what they were doing to their children.
So all the homeschool parents in this country owe their situation to fascists who want to foment a crisis so they can take over control of the country. They will not rewrite the constitution. They do not believe in constitutional law. Instead they will institute biblical law. This means stoning people.
As bizarre as the sound and as crazy as this sounds you better believe it.
My Response:
I do not have an inaccurate picture of what is happening in parts of Christian America. I just believe that, even if I find their world view objectionable, people are free to educate their children however they want. Being “well documented by respected journalists” does not equate to being well-respected or even pervasive in the Christian community. Among faith based groups there is a great diversity of thought, political party alliance and lifestyle. There is a study by Barna Group that has a table picturing the diversity in American Christianity. You simply cannot clump all Christians into a box the way you are doing.
[They get voted down over their constant attempts to introduce creation science and Christianity into the classroom] I am not sure you have said it, but I want to be clear to those who may be following this thread. America is not a Democracy; it is a Republic. Democracy is rule by a majority. A Republic is rule by law. The Constitution is in place so that the majority does not oppress and take away the freedoms of the minority. More than 80% of Americans self identify as Christian. If we were a democracy, it might be easy for this group to dictate the scope and sequence of a science class. Your example doesn’t tell me anything about the power and agenda of some Christian extremists. It is a perfect example of how when applied correctly the Constitution of the US protects the rights of the minority.
You have poorly researched the beginning of the homeschooling movement. You have presented your assumptions as fact. I cannot let that stand unopposed. The early leaders of the homeschooling movement were by and large not Christian. The early leaders (including John Holt, John Taylor Gatto and Ivan Illich) didn’t openly express the religious views you seem to think I owe my allegiance to. The Moore’s were a Christian family, but their formula of study, work and community service is not necessarily founded on the doctrine of any one religious organization. The first home educators publication was a secular journal. Home education has been around since the 1970’s and was started by people who loved freedom and wanted to do what is best for their children. They felt and had research to back up their claims that the way the school system was designed wasn’t the best way to educate children. But, I suspect this truth isn’t newsworthy or sensational enough to be covered by well respected journalists.
I will admit that homeschooling today is much more “Christianized” but, when 80% of the population self identifies as Christian, even the most basic understanding of business practices would explain this. In fact, we would all think it was odd if it weren’t true. It is also true that the companies that are doing the best are the companies whose doctrinal stance is most conservative and fundamental. Many of the homeschooling support groups are led by people that hold these views. Recently, a well respected company was dis-invited from a major conference because the president of the company espouses a view of Creation that is not in harmony with those of the people organizing the conference. His company will not be allowed to have a booth with the other vendors. This is truly a sad state of affairs. I hope that all home educators are using the Internet and other resources to find out all that is available.
Last, there are those calling for the elimination of the Department of Education on political and not religious grounds. I would fall into this category. The Libertarian Party does not support the current system of public education. And from the Cato Institute:
I am sure that you will not align these groups with the Christian right.
Finally, you can continue to assert that you are pushing institutionalized education for all children because you have a great love for children and for child rights. Most of the early homeschooling leaders would disagree. How is it protecting the right of any human to force institutionalization and take away their freedom without them having committed any crime? Your goal is made clear by the name of the organization you represent. Just like whoever controls the search engines controls the Internet; whoever controls the scope and sequence of a compulsory education system controls the thoughts and mind of the next generation.